There are tools to check README files. Which would give suggestions on what needs to be fixed.

If you are using Sphinx anyway, would suggest going with a ReStructuredText rather than vanilla markdown.

In your Sphinx docs, can mix rst and md but the index file must be index.rst, not index.md

Then use this sphinx-external-toc-strict for structuring your Sphinx docs.

restview for real time editing of restructuredtext file

LOL have never used the match statement. Has been one of those features just outta reach. So close can taste it. But alas …

Now py310 is here. Still not enthusiastic about it. But over time maybe will come around.

__slots__ = (...) or frozen. Same thing. Make the data class read-only reducing memory usage by 30-40%. Like the memory usage difference between tuple and list.

From experience, in stubs, __slots__ need to include "__weakref__". If frozen, then don’t include "__weakref__".

How about this. Lets meet each other half way.

I’ll stop thinking of the match statement as thorium reactor toxic waste.

And maybe you can take a read through of the frozen option for dataclasses.

Sound fair?

That’s fine. But you coulda had access to latest greatest updates. Whether you need them or not.

dataclasses required py310+ for critical features like slot support. Only now that py39 is history, is dataclasses even a thing. But then a must have feature will require an even more recent python version. So stuck waiting in a never ending loop.

Fck that!

python -m pip install attrs

Problem solved.

Maybe it’s more about access to Rust coders than the Astral existing toolchain.

Have zero exposure to Astral. If they were bought out by OpenAI tomorrow, would not notice the difference.

If i were a Rust coder, would have interest. Since i’m not, would be at the mercy of the maintainers.

Saw uv and ruff as a liability. Now? What is uv and ruff. Never heard of it.

Look forward to future discussions on requirement files again. Reintroduce everyone to the -r and -c options. How to put requirements into a hierarchy. How to deal with multiple venv. And how to manage requirement files across multiple packages.

Better have a damn good reason to import everything into the package level namespace.

The reasoning sqlalchemy has is to prepare beforehand to be able to run in multiple threads without needing to import anything. Importing is slow and should be done up front.

So there is a slight delay when importing sqlalchemy.

Keep in mind, the sqlalchemy author and maintainers are waaaaaaay smarter than you and I. py315 may level the play field ever so slightly.

py315 is supposed to introduce soft import. So wait for that and then everyone jump ship like every previous version has rabies.

Thanks for the article link. Worried code too much and don’t study enough.

Appreciate the reading material.

i’m in love with typing_extensions. Know why? I’m not on the latest greatest Python version. But want to use the usable latest features. As package author/maintainer, upgrading to the latest and greatest is not a viable option.

in py39, dataclasses lacked critical features that came out later. Especially for a fundamental structure like a dataclass, new features requiring a Python upgrade is a show stopper. On the level of a flaw. Either backport or in a separate package or i don’t want to touch it. That’s why use attrs and not dataclasses.dataclass

And so should we all.

There is always going to be some great features we want to use and then not being able to is not great UX. Every package that matters really must be external, except for Python features like free threading, sub-interpretors, etc.

There are always many coding languages, unfortunately jumping from one to the next is a pipe dream. So really doesn’t matter what Haskell can do. Or how Rust devs all have 10 gfs.

You are describing Sentinel. Recommend using attrs.NOTHING. Unfortunately, the static typing, NothingType, is in private API. Until the Python community can settle on the one Sentinel to rule them all, will stick with attrs cuz it’s usually already a dependency.

You can come by my place anytime for beers and pizza. Bitching about static typing should be an Olympic sport. Or at least involve beer.

kudos for pointing that out. Another reason to dump Optional.

Union[None] is not ambiguous

As coders we have the potential to have lots of coder friends. Union[None] is just the sad reality.

Optional[None] is sorta keeping our hopes up like there is some distant future where the situation improves. Where all these coder fiends come over every night of the week to bitch about static typing issues and running out of beer and pizza. And when that one guy has to bring up politics; everyone will react like he just let out a massive fart in the room, poisoning the air. Suddenly can feel the IQ in the room dramatically drop. Everyone reacts predicatively, spontaneously, and synchronously in disgust; thinking, dude what a tard! And someone will say, lets do this again tomorrow.

Fck yeah! This is the place where i want to live.

While we are on da topic, always use string notation! My experience, this was really non-obvious.

With both cast and typing. With cast, can let builtin types, like str or int, be passed in without the string notation.

This reduces the typing imports bleeding into your runtime code modules and tests.

As can surmise from my handle, i’m even stricter!

Use Union, not | or Optional where ever possible.

Optional does not allow for future expansion of the typing. Optional[int] and then want to add float, so have to rewrite it Union[int, float, None] So write it with Union to begin with.

Went thru my | stage like everyone else, but grew out of it.

TypeAlias insists on Union, not |

So Union everywhere ftw

Why? If there is a possibility of making a mistake, Murphy’s law dictates that it’ll occur every damn time. Enough already! KISS principle is in effect.

project cost = sigma(1...n)(risk likelihood of occurring * risk cost), but we aren’t discussing every possible risk. Only the one risk.

The risk of having to:

• for the app to work, requires compiled components
• having to be familiar with setup.py. This is referred to as the sewer, which is what is targeted by hackers e.g. xv
• maintainers who come later being familiar and can maintain packages that incorporate other languages e.g. C or rust
• possibly neglecting to perform the compile (but lets ignore this)
• compiler runs a binary written and maintained by the spy agency Google

or

Just not doing that

The only justification for going with protoc, over other methods, could only come down to data serialization speed. But in that case, wouldn’t a rust solution be: not only as fast, but also much safer.

It’s a potential single point of failure. Which have experienced first hand. The rest of the app could not run cuz a non-essential piece was non-operable due to the missing compiled message definitions file or message definitions file was updated but not compiled.

So protobuf carries a non-zero risk.

Could the app have been designed without an essential exploding binary blob? Most definitely yes!

A better approach

That unfortunately isn’t a better approach. The compilation step requires protobuf to be installed, by the distro package manager. To my knowledge it’s not available from pypi.

An uncompiled protobuf file is essentially worthless unless it’s compiled. But if it’s compiled then it’s a binary blob.

Not anti-protobuf. Just make the protobuf compiler available without getting a distro package manager involved.

Otherwise slower alternatives might be more viable.

strictyaml bundles strictyaml.ruamel, which used to be an external unmaintained C package.

This reduces strictyaml dependencies to:

pyproject.toml

dependencies = [
    "python-dateutil>=2.6.0"
]

Just that one. So can be confident strictyaml will work.

Can the same be said for protobuf and Google (over invested in AI and is probably dying underneath a huge debt burden while spending tons of money on AI wash propaganda while not funding Python projects enough. Maintainer leave or burn out while everyone is too busy head fcking us with the AI washing to notice.)

Also there is strictyaml that validates against schemas. Don’t touch the builtin yaml module.

protobuf needs to be compiled. This introduces possibility of coder error. Just forgetting to compile and commit protobuf files after a change. This affected the electrum btc and ltc (light) wallets.

and the entire ecosystem of packages which needs to be maintained.

Unless you think that is done by magic fairy elves

Allude to Rust without saying Rust

Oh you mean MSFT is part of Alpha-Omega foundation and their money is not green.

tl;dr;

Alpha-Omega funds Seth Larson and Mike Fiedler. Alpha-Omega is big corp grants to open source projects, except yours. Never yours.

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