- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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Smart devices are only useful if they are open source and everything can be self hosted. Everything else becomes a brick when the manufacturer drops support for it.
Exactly, I have been using some of the same zwave devices for over 10 years. I don’t buy anything that needs the Internet unless I don’t have a choice and that device is not mission critical. I build many of my devices with esp home also.
For now, hubitat seems to be a good balance between slowly improving the support and experience vs. price paid. I opted in for their subscription that does automatic backups with recovery to a different device and managed remote access and I’m satisfied with the value received for the subscription fee.
I doubt this will last; if they get successful enough, somebody will buy them like the Samsung / Smartthings scenario and the enshittification will begin (or accelerate, depending on your opinion of the status quo).
Hopefully by then homeseer has a robust hardware ecosystem and migrating isn’t very painful.
And the author is right, no need to touch Matter at this point if you’re already vested in Z-Wave or ZigBee.
But they can’t sell you more shit if they didn’t have planned obsolescence baked in!
(It’s a little sobering realizing that technology is old enough to be, you know, OLD. Nothing about this is novel to anybody anymore. We’re way, way past being impressed by two lines batting a dot around.)Unfortunately self-hosting requires a technical level that the vast majority doesn’t have or wish to develop. I totally understand why some people don’t want to fuck around with their own digital infrastructure, it’s a huge pain in the ass sometimes, and when something goes wrong (at it will at some point) you can quickly get to a place where the skill to get it running is nowhere near enough to fix it.
What’s an open source thermostat? My Nest is shit when it comes to connecting it to home assistant. It’s googles fault
I have a Honeywell t9 that is homekit enabled
Anyone who’s serious about home automation eventually realizes that the only way to do it effectively is with locally controlled standards based devices like zwave and zigbee, and open source projects like home assistant and esp32.
Anything else will eventually be corrupted or abandoned by its corporate sponsor, as anyone who’s tried it the other way can tell you.
The best case scenario is: when they cut off access there is a large enough public outcry that they immediately reverse position (until the next attempt).
Lots of these companies just go out of business and leave everyone stranded. But companies like Google don’t give a fuck when they leave open source projects stranded like they did with the Nest API.
The issue is really with the business model of most IOT device makers. They sell you one device once and they’re basically committing themselves to running cloud services for that device indefinitely. This only works while you’re growing, and when sales start to plateau you’re suddenly paying huge amounts of money to maintain the infrastructure with no money coming in.
Companies like Google, Apple and Amazon are big enough to absorb that, but the smaller ones will quickly start looking at ads and subscription fees.
It would be a lot better if device makers could just stick to building the hardware, after which the user just plugs it into their IOT provider of choice (which would be a subscription or something self hosted like Home Assistant).
I have nothing against advertising in general, but I won’t tolerate OS-level advertising and I don’t want ad-subsidized hardware.
Sorry, best we can do is a premium (expensive) ad-free tier that still advertises our own products.
I don’t have a problem with a streaming service doing that. Hardware, no. If I bought it, I own it and the manufacturer can fuck right off.
Ya, but if you do that, how are we supposed to make money off you on a monthly basis after you already bought the product?
John Deere wants a word.
I actually dont understand why news and such written blogs stopped with sponsors. I dont want tracking pixels, autoplaying videos and all that bullshit. Have a static small paragraph with a referral link, thats it.
For example on adventofcode, there was a static ad for spotify job application. This is an ad which i can advocate for. Creator of the site gets money, the ad is not intrusive, and it targets programmers who would just naturally navigate to this site.
Gotta pay for the OS somehow. The previous system ended up with tons of unpatched out-of-support machines spreading malware.
I’ll install my own OS, thank you
I did, when I bought the device. And if the manufacturer does a good job, I’ll recommend them to friends and family and likely buy more of their products.
The FOSS community does most of the heavy lifting with security updates anyway. Most of these things are running Linux, so they’ve already helped themselves to that community’s work.
Because 95% of them based their shit on Linux but refused to provide the shit available for the community to take over support.
Any OS with ads is malware.
Open-source is the only way to get a decent product. Being locked down by proprietary software from a few companies with an oligopoly over the market and the growing culture of disposable devices means they don’t give a fuck if works well or if it works past a year or two.
Reminds me of MyQ garage door opener’s fiasco. I wonder if the RatGDO project is still doing good, they were flooded with orders last year.
I’m not familiar with this. What happened?
The Home Assistant blog covered the whole thing very well: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/11/06/removal-of-myq-integration/
damn, that sucks. similar to why people are averse to getting a Lucid car right now. people don’t trust that the company will be around in the near future and they’ll be left without any support.
I just want my damn blinds to open in the morning and close at night automatically, without needing a goddamn proprietary “app,” or a “cloud” connection, or a bunch of batteries I have to change (i.e., I want it wired to either 120VAC or PoE). Is that really too much to ask‽
No. The lack of variety in options is honestly astonishing. I’m looking for a cheap zigbee button that is wall powered. They don’t really seem to exist. Who the fuck wants to be constantly replacing batteries in smart things? Probably the same people who don’t want wires running everywhere, but their priorities are in the wrong place imo.
I’m also kinda shocked that a product doesn’t exist that’s just a AA or AAA fake battery with wires hanging off of it that you could plug into the wall. Probably a safety hazard or something.
The battery life of a typical switch can easily be like 5 years though.
Still something I’d have to think about in 5 years. Also, if I use rechargeables, which I would, it’ll potentially be less.
I don’t want to have to think about it. Ever.
Also, if you have a bunch of switches in your house, even at 5 years you could be replacing batteries in one switch or another every few months.
At 10 battery operated smart things in the house, thats - on average - swapping batteries every 6 months. As you add more smart things, that frequency goes up. I don’t want to be doing that, ever.
One of the first automations I installed in my Home Assistant, was a community contribution to show a table of devices by battery level, and alert when low. You shouldn’t have to think about replacing the batteries.
Of course, I immediately found out the remote sensors for my Ecobee don’t seem to report battery level …. Or maybe the integration is incomplete: my thermostat also doesn’t report battery level but was able to notify when low
Installing an automation and checking battery level manually, or even having an automation tell me to replace the batteries in devices means I’m thinking about it… Not to mention that I still have to replace the batteries which, shockingly, involved thinking about replacing the batteries.
Your wall outlet is AC but a battery is DC, so a pure wire setup is not so much a safety thing as it is just incompatible. A good fire starter.
So you’ll have to convert it, which makes for a big, bulky plug.
On top of that, you’ll need prior knowledge of the battery layout, including whether they’re parallel or serial. Usually parallel, but not a guarantee.
All of this isn’t insurmountable, but is enough to make it not the norm. They do, in fact, already exist
That’s awesome. I will order one now for my wireless mouse.
Holy crap, I’ll be purchasing that ASAP, guess I just wasn’t able to find them, thank you!
And yes, I was aware that simply wiring the device directly into the wall wouldn’t work.
There are better ones out there, that one in particular had some iffy reviews about voltages, but yeah they definitely exist.
I usually see them labeled as “power supply adapter for [AA,AAA,etc]”.
I’ll have to do some research… Wild that I wasn’t able to find them previously.
Some standard wall switches can also do multiple functions and may work for yours.
For example, I’m a fan of Innovelli switches where you can configure actions like double-clicks and more, to act as a “Zigbee button”
I can’t replace the wall switches, as I’m renting a manufactured home, which has some really wackily wired light switches, likely to save money. If I owned a home I’d definitely install some smart switches and utilize those.
You may want to look into Shelly relays. You wire them to the physical switch in the wall and can control them locally with Home Assistant or just individually via WiFi. Only downside for most folks (especially in the US it seems) is that they generally require a neutral wire to work.
I just built my own, it was easy and fun…I recommend doing the same
Pointer to get started? It’s time to jump in.
Yes.
The fact that there is basically no good “premium” options for smart devices, just cheap adware trash or more diy type stuff with home assistant and the like, tells me there is not much of a mainstream market for most of these devices to begin with. If your only niche is just the hobby crowd or shit that has to be so cheap that you can’t make a profit without riddling it with ads then it might not be a market worth getting into.
Apple TV seems to be doing just fine. Considering investing in one. I don’t think it’s likely they’ll start putting ads in the hone screen and such.
I really like the one I have. A relative has a much older model and it still works fine too.
It’s very responsive and the 4k models are quite powerful and future proofed IMO. If you have an iPhone you can quickly use it as a remote too.
Paired with infuse app it even does local streaming from my media server well.
And it’s cheaper to get this year’s top of the line Apple TV than it is the 2019 Nividia shield pro.
I’m converting from Firesticks once the new Apple TVs come out. I’m sick of the constant upselling and Amazon’s been putting much more effort into blocking me from using a custom launcher than basic stability and usability.
The fact that there is basically no good “premium” options for smart devices
What’s wrong with Control4 and/or Savant, and Lutron?
The Internet of Shit.
I fucking hate that I learned what this means a month ago.
Bought myself a ZigBee coordinator and started pairing some devices.
Sweet! That was easy, now all that’s left are the Tuya ceiling fans
Little did I know, what was about to happen would cost me my sanity.
Honestly, just give me a fucking HP printer and ask me to connect it to my computer from the other side of the world.
Weird how so few saw that coming… It’s why I’ve limited it as much as possible and I’m clinging to my self hosted shit.
Didn’t expect to be hit by the caboose when the train has been running over them for years.
I self-hosted my remote and now I can’t find it anywhere.
This is one area where Apple have actually done a decent job.
Even the article reluctantly admits the AppleTV is the best media box now. Because it’s the only one that doesn’t throw ads on the home screen.
HomeKit also enforces local network control so you don’t need the manufacturer app or third party cloud services.
But the industry as a whole really needs better standards and accountability. And people need to stop buying products from an ad company (Google).
Normally I’m a pretty earlier adopter of new technology but home automation doesn’t appeal to me because I don’t want to have to constantly pay a subscription to someone to process my commands when I have a perfectly functional computer.
I want to have a doorbell that does not financially commit me to a monthly fee I do not think that’s too much to ask.
There’s plenty of products without subscriptions… Including your doorbell example.
Maybe you haven’t actually researched this enough?
For me, a doorbell that is more than a doorbell is a perfect example of tech built to fill a need no one had.
To be fair, I use a simple smartlock whose only purpose is so I alone can unlock my bedroom door without needing my physical key duplicated for others to enter at desired times.
To also be fair, I have a hodgepodge of smarthome lights and plugs linked via ifttt that I am now worried will not have any replacement option in 15 years. Maybe I made a mistake, but I do actually have a need to rely on a smartswitch to turn off the lights when I leave home.
Agreed, but there are choices. Even for the Ring doorbell, you can choose not to have a subscription if it suits your bpberds to have live video only, no history. But there are also full featured choices that do not require a subscription.
For me, I haven’t yet upgraded from Ring because I’m not ready to take on an NVR, nor build out the full system I want
I’m getting sick of this yet we are backed into a corner. I never had to set up my old 21" CRT, yet LG forces me to fuck around with pointless settings to get an image I’m still not happy with.
My Xbox pushes ads. My Mac has stuff built in which I’ll never use yet I cannot remove. Windows is a joke but has compatibility I may have to return to. My phone asks me to review applications I just want to use and not be bothered by.
[obligatory suggestion to use Linux]
but yeah iot had become not optional in some spaces. tvs and cars are the big ones i can’t stand
My cars have all been relatively stupid, by modern standards, my motorbikes too, as I’ve never owned anything younger than ten years.
Linux would be great if… I could get it on great hardware, and have it play VR games (plus any modern titles). I’m teetering on a second hand Razer Blade running W10 to get my fix.
I’ve had a few smart TVs, and none of them have ever bothered me with ads I don’t know what TVs people are getting. But currently I have a Panasonic TV and a Samsung TV and both of those are fine.
Mine is not ads as I haven’t connected it to the internet, but the fact that the settings out of the box on a so-called state-of-the-art TV are absolutely fucked and contrary to how it should be.
Whenever my workflow is interrupted by a review nag, they receive 1 star.
Funny that such a rant is on an ad-ridden website.
The only absolute with these devices is that you don’t get what you pay for. Inevitably it will completely change without your consent, and generally it will deliberately be for a worse experience since you’re captive.
Yeh. Never truely completely captive, but the potential shaftings they give us are hard to take. Full on denial can set in, I’ve noticed with some I know, the more we have invested into the given shittersphere. Understandable and sad. We are also talking about a relatively niche area here unfortunately. Obviously for the likes of google, amazon et al., we aren’t the customer. Our relative loyalty to their walled shitterspheres are unlikely even a metric to them other than as ad / clicks/ conversion, as they’ll just replace this week’s initiative with a shinier (to the masses) gadget next week. I really hope that whole industry’s days are numbered, but unfortunately all of it is a feature of consumer capitalism and not a bug. Competition, regulation , and DIY are our only defences. The fact that to varying degrees these big tech players are in control of information itself ( to anyone silly enough to consider using the yellowpages/google a fair and factual info source ) , helps them no end with whatever strategy they’re onto this week.
Regarding not getting what you pay for. Ive often thought that having to pay the nominal cost price for say the firestick is merely to obfiscate what it really is. ”They should pay me for embedding this spy stick in my house” is the natural feeling, so paying some arbitrary amount to ‘purchase’ immediately elicits some sort of entitlement ( which should totally be the case ! ) in the consumer. The psychology behind such corporate behaviour is fascinating but it’s probably as much to do with regulation, ironically.
Poorly made smart devices turn out to be the only investment choice we had.
FTFY. They do it on purpose
Kinda. It’s really difficult and expensive to buy a dumb TV.
Blocked by an ad-blocker…
